The best way to get an accurate estimate of the cost of a turbo 350 transmission is to consult with a transmission specialist or dealership. Install the new filter and fill the transmission with fresh fluid. What is the cost in tools and how much can I save in labor? Used transmissions can be purchased for much less, but they may require more work to ensure they are in good working order. CALL 800-708-0087, Office Hours are Monday-Friday, 9:00am-6:00pm EST, Our products have been featured on Gas Monkey Garage, Overhaulin, Spike TV, Discovery Channel, and much more! It has a park, reverse, neutral and drive selector. Add To Cart $1,791.95 TCI Details GM TH350 Transmission Dimensions Overall Length: 27 5/8 in. Not unless you have a GOOD friend who is willing to build it for the cost of parts. A turbo 350 transmission is a popular choice for many car enthusiasts. Get yourself a copy of Ron Sessions' TH350 Handbook, and read it until you think you understand how it works. 34. New transmissions can cost anywhere from $700 to $1,500. If youre looking to buy a turbo 350 transmission, its important to do your research and compare prices from different sellers.You can also check online forums for advice from other car enthusiasts. If you're only running a 75 hp 4 banger with the same trans, you'd probably "lose" 10-15 hp (with the engine wide open at the rpm of peak HP) in the same trans. 5.0. With so many different types of fluids on the market, it can be confusing trying to figure out which one is right for your car. 3-Speed Max Duty Outlaw Lock-Up T400 Transmission Add a standard welded Lock Up converter for $2,750 or a bolt together Lock up converter for $3,750 ATI's welded Outlaw Lock-Up Converters provide 0% slip for up to 2800 HP while the Bolt Together Lock Up Converter will provide 0% slip all the way up to 4500HP. Click to reveal They gave me a new flywheel realigned my starter gave me a new flywheel cover new dipstick tube. For example, how well it is maintained will play a big role in its longevity. To change the filter, drain the transmission fluid into a pan and remove the old filter. 3. The HydraMatic 350 transmission was prevalent in nearly all GM, rear-wheel-drive cars and trucks through 1984. The TH350 is also popular in boats and RVs, due to its ability to handle high torque loads. Find a local shop that gets good reviews and offer cash payment. A turbo 350 transmission is a 3-speed automatic transmission that was commonly used in Chevrolet vehicles between 1969 and 1986. 2023 Wheels Adviser All Rights Reserved. Your Lexus RX 350's model year and labor costs where you live could impact your Lexus RX 350 transmission . Book a minivan, 12-passenger van, or 15-passenger van today. In most cases, the transmission will need to be replaced if it fails due to overheating. With the cost depending on so many variables, its important to shop around to find the best deal. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. New transmissions can be purchased from auto parts stores, online retailers and specialty shops. However, most vehicles will take between 3 and 4 quarts of transmission fluid. Save rebuilt chevy turbo 350 transmission to get e-mail alerts and updates on your eBay Feed. Our dealers are the ones to contact if you want to get a personal experience of our . the 350 is 27 5/8" long with a 6" tail shaft, 30 5/8" with a 9" and 33 5/8" with a 12" tail shaft. When it comes to transmissions, no other company provides this level of commitment to their clients. Don Pizzi My TH350 with a tire burning shift kit high pressure seal kit and 2500 stall ran about $1,300. Trying to see if its worth doing myself. {"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"FAQPage","mainEntity":[{"@type":"Question","name":"How Much Does A Turbo 350 Transmission Cost To Rebuild? If your original TH350 came with a 6-inch tail shaft, you'll have to cut the drive shaft by 3 inches. Coventry, United. If the parts are readily available and the labor is not too expensive, the cost of the transmission will be lower. You are using an out of date browser. High-Speed Internet Plans. My dad and I stopped by yesterday while we were out and about. Included rebuild, shift kit, and setting of shift points. I've built a lot of engines and rear ends. It has an excellent gear spread between all three gears. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It is the best manual transmission for a chevy 350. The transmission is operated by a vacuum modulator, which adjusts the shift points in response to load and speed. Drop it off at our shop and pick it up a few hours later, or save time and have our Delivery mechanics come to you. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! 2. The Turbo 350 is a three-speed automatic transmission that was produced by General Motors. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. Your email address will not be published. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. . If the fluid starts to break down, it can cause the transmission to overheat and fail. Your location and vehicle may affect the price of Turbocharger Assembly Replacement. The availability of the parts and the labor required to install the transmission can also affect the cost. If you need to replace your transmission and you want an exact copy of what you originally had, expect to spend between $4,000 and $7,000,. Save 5% at checkout. You should always use a high quality synthetic transmission fluid designed for use in Turbo 350 transmissions. Cost to REBUILD a Transmission: Cost Range: $1,580 to $4,020 Average Cost: $1,975 to $2,700. providence.craigslist.org The protected want to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that didn't protect the protected in the first place. Power loss in a transmission is a percentage, and the . Thanks for the info, think I may give it a shot. This page was last updated: 18-Apr 00:29. If you do a lot of stop-and-go driving or tow heavy loads, you may need to change your fluid more frequently. The TH350 is one of GMs most popular models, being considered one of the best automatic transmissions ever produced. If your old transmission had a 9-inch tail shaft, then the drive shaft should fit. There are many places to find these transmissions for sale, but not all sellers are created equal.Do some research and read customer reviews before making a purchase. It does not require a lot of special tools, or special procedures. The price will also depend on the year, make, and model of the vehicle. Small Business. The TH350 transmission is a three-speed automatic transmission launched by General Motors in vehicles from 1968. A torque converter is a fluid coupling between an engine and a transmission that allows the engine to spin independently of the transmission. We are grateful for the fact that Monster Transmission has gone BEYOND and we will continue to be the best publicity that you will every have.. A small transmission will hold approximately 3 quarts of fluid, while a large transmission can hold up to 4 quarts. TDS provides the speed you need with the reliability you deserve. I just had a th350 built by PTC. A new transmission can cost between $2,500 and $3,500. The price will depend on the year, make, and model of the vehicle. I dont know anything about transmissions thats why i am asking. Mine's a TH350, reverse manual valve body, tranny brake and so on. A forum community dedicated to Chevrolet Chevelle owners and enthusiasts. The Turbo Hydra-Matic 350 (TH350) is a 3-speed automatic transmission that was produced by General Motors. It is important to consider the condition of the unit and the quality of the components when purchasing a transmission. The shop tossed in a few extras for me. I live in Covington, Tennessee and I just had my Monster Transmission installed in my 2001 Dodge Ram and I'm completely happy with it. For anyone in the market for a reliable and affordable 350 turbo transmission, there are a few things to keep in mind. The reason i was asking is because i got mine yesterday and and he charged me $805.00 but i got a complete rebuild and a new street/strip stall converter. I get a very good price on parts through my supplier. The capacity of transmission fluid will vary depending on the make and model of your vehicle. Free next day delivery or same day pickup. Communication. At Classic Hydramatic we rebuild or resurrect your classic car or classic truck Early Hydramatic, Dual Clutch, Jetaway, Dual Fluid Coupler, or Turbo Hydramatic transmission. It was introduced in 1969 and was used in a variety of GM vehicles, including Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Cadillac, and Holden. If the parts are not readily available or the labor is more expensive, the cost of the transmission will be higher. A new turbo 350 transmission for a Cadillac Escalade from 2020 may cost around $2,500. The reason i was asking is because i got mine yesterday and and he charged me $805.00 but i got a complete rebuild and a new street/strip stall converter. It is also known as the Turbo Hydramatic 350. If you are looking for an efficient and reliable transmission that can handle high . Then when my driveshaft twisted on me the case cracked and they only charged me for the new case no labor! GM 6L80E $1600* GM. 104.238.184.184 It also varies depending on the condition of the transmission and whether or not it needs to be rebuilt. SHARE POST #4. The fluid capacity of the TH350 depends on the model year of the transmission. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Your email address will not be published. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. It is highly regarded for its supreme durability. A Turbo 350 transmission can cost anywhere from $700 to $4,000. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. The main shaft is made from heat treated 4140 steel and the gears are made from high strength 8620 steel. New and used transmissions can be purchased from auto parts stores, online retailers and specialty shops, as well as salvage yards, online classifieds and private sellers. $86.34 $ 86. However, it can start to break down at temperatures above this. If the fluid level is low, add ATF until it reaches the F mark. When purchasing a new or used Turbo 350 transmission, it is important to consider the condition of the unit and the quality of the components. You must log in or register to reply here. Ship your transmission to him and he will overhaul it and send it back within a 10 to 14 business day turn around time. "}},{"@type":"Question","name":"How Does The Cost Of A Turbo 350 Transmission Compare To Other Transmissions? With so many different options on the market, its important to choose the right one for your car to ensure peak performance and longevity. The TH400 is also a very simple unit, and is relatively easy to overhaul. He does trannys for every level; even stock/super stock NHRA cars. Thats why its important to check the oil level regularly and top off the oil as needed. What kind of transmission does a classic HydraMatic have? A small transmission will hold around 2 quarts of oil, while a larger transmission can hold up to 4 quarts of oil. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. A new Turbo 350 transmission can cost anywhere from $1800 to $2500, depending on the quality and features of the transmission. You can expect to pay anywhere from $800 to $1,500 for a turbo 350 transmission. Generally, you could expect Lexus RX 350 transmission replacement costs to be upwards of $3,500. We are dedicated to giving you the technical support you need, when you need it! So it's definitely something you want. A Ford F 350 Super Duty Turbocharger Assembly Replacement costs between $2,198 and $2,654 on average. I always thought that a rebuild would only be 4 or 5 hundred dollars but i was just going on what people told me that had priced them years back. View cart for details. Small Business. Free shipping for many products! GM Turbo 350 transmission Level 3: $4,495.00. Your IP: I figured I'd do the transmission too. do you think i was overcharged because i have heard of some of the rebuilds costing like $1300.00. Did not include converter. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. A good TH350 is going to cost more than $200. This includes both the torque converter and the Transmission itself. If youre not sure which transmission is best for your vehicle, ask the seller for help or consult with a mechanic.Once youve made your decision, its time to make an offer. Edmunds members save an average of $372 by getting . If you take care of your Turbo 350 transmission and perform regular maintenance on it, then it will likely last for many years without any major problems. The quality of the components can also affect the cost of a Turbo 350 transmission. There's a lot to it, if you have a high HP big block and you'ure running a TH400 it could well be "losing" 75-80 hp in the trans. New transmissions can cost anywhere from $700 to $1,500. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7b9b32145d28d168 On a 722.9 7G it usually means the entire electrohydraulic valve body. ATI Race Transmission Overhaul Kits 356340 Overhaul Kit Race Transmission TH350 (without Band Apply) Part Number: ATI-356340 Not Yet Reviewed Estimated Ship Date: May 4, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship Free Shipping Special Order $184.37 Add To Cart Compare Wish List TCI Maximizer Rebuild Kits 329205 $620 for my TH350. The TH350 is an extremely popular transmission, particularly among gearheads and drag racers, thanks to its durability and wide range of aftermarket parts. Solenoids, shift cables, filters, & more. JavaScript is disabled. It is also important to consider the reputation of the manufacturer and the warranty that is offered. I found an article from 2019 that states that the average price for large beer (500 ml) is 60 kr in Stockholm. The price depends on a number of factors, including the condition of the transmission and the make and model of the car. Out this way a "core" (in other words an unproven trans sitting on the floor) goes for $80-100. do you think i was overcharged because i have heard of some of the rebuilds costing like $1300.00. Just make sure whatever fluid you use is designed for use in an automatic transmission. Used transmissions can be purchased from salvage yards, online classifieds and private sellers. Discussion in 'General Chevy & GMC Pickups Talk' started by 1964swb, Jun 6, 2004. The transmission has a removable bellhousing, so it can easily be adapted to different engine configurations. Although not quite the stout heavy-duty performer as its big brother, the Turbo 400, the Turbo 350 transmission is a fine, durable, capable, and when modified, stout performer in its own right. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Internet plan and speed availability is based on your service address, up to 8Gig available. Replacing a Turbo 350 transmission can be worth it depending on the condition of the existing transmission. However, if the transmission is regularly serviced and the fluid is changed regularly, it can last for many years. Pro-Mod. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. However, there are limits to how much heat it can take before it starts to break down. I had it rebuilt last spring and after a full summer of hard driving.no problems. ","acceptedAnswer":{"@type":"Answer","text":"The cost of shipping a turbo 350 transmission will vary depending on the size and weight of the transmission, as well as the shipping method used. When it comes to transmissions, the turbo 350 is one of the most durable and can withstand a lot of heat. It was produced from 1969 to 1986 and is one of the most widely used and reliable automatic transmissions ever produced. Finally, make sure to check your vehicles owners manual to see what kind of transmission fluid is recommended for your specific model. It is also popular for its durability and reliable performance, making it a favorite among drag racing and hot rodding enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about restorations, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. May 11, 2017. The torque converter is also very robust and can handle up to 450 ft-lbs of torque.Another reason why the Turbo 350 is so strong is because it uses a simple design that doesnt have a lot of moving parts. You will also be using compressed air for drying parts as well as air pressure for testing clutch packs, servos, etc. Since it went behind a 6 banger, no need. There are also a number of aftermarket fluids that claim to be compatible with the Turbo 350, so it really comes down to personal preference. New Turbo 350 transmissions can be purchased from auto parts stores. The Turbo 350 transmission is an automatic three-speed transmission that was produced by General Motors. It is important to keep your transmission fluid at the proper level, as too little or too much can cause problems. Required fields are marked *. Another $100, they would make it more race/hd. NOT every company stands behind their work. S Squigie Registered Joined Aug 22, 2015 For anyone looking to upgrade their vehicle with a Turbo 350 Transmission, the cost can vary significantly depending on the make and model of the vehicle and the condition of the transmission. He knows his sheeett! What transmission is best for racing? The rule of thumb here is: the bigger the engine and the heavier the vehicle, the more clutch plates used. With the right research and a bit of patience, you can find the perfect Turbo 350 Transmission for your car, truck, or SUV at a price that fits within your budget. FREE delivery Apr 21 - 25 . This fluid is used to lubricate and cool the torque converter as well as provide hydraulic power to engage the clutch. It was typically paired with Small Block V6 & V8 engines. How Much Transmission Fluid Does a 4L60E Take, How to Get Cockroaches Out of Electronics, How Long After Painting Bathroom Can You Shower. The cost of the transmission will vary depending on the year, make and model of the vehicle it is being used in. We are compensated for referring traffic and business to Amazon and other companies linked to on this site. The tranny shop rebuilt it with all new clutches, sun gears , planetaries, and sprags, then added a 3200 stall and told me to only use Type F. Benz knows they had speed sensor trouble on early 722.9 transmissions. It functions correctly. Used transmissions can be purchased for much less, but they may require more work to ensure they are in good working order. The cookie settings on this website are set to 'allow all cookies' to give you the very best experience. Or if your real adventurous, rebuild it yourself. So using Dexron VI in a TH350 should actually improve its performance and longevity. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Over the years there have been many different variations of the turbo 350, but they all share the same basic design.One of the most common questions we get here at Turbo 350 Transmissions is whether or not all Turbo 350 transmissions are the same. If you do a lot of stop-and-go city driving, then youll want a transmission fluid that can withstand high temperatures and protect against wear and tear. Accept Is rebuilding a transmission hard? Read More. Expect to pay on the high side of these numbers if you have the work done at an automobile dealership or franchise chain. If you are unsure of how much fluid to add, consult your owners manual or a mechanic. If you find the turbocharger cheaper somewhere else, give one of our US based turbocharger specialists a call and we will match that price. There are also transmission fluids specifically designed for tow vehicles, which can help protect your transmission from the added stress of hauling heavy loads. The fluid capacity of the TH350 depends on the model year of the transmission. JavaScript is disabled. The price will depend on the condition of the transmission, where you purchase it, and if it comes with a warranty. A turbo 350 transmission typically costs between $700 and $2,500. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We're transmission experts, recognized by some of the greatest and most notable technicians in the automotive industry. HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO TURBO A 350/370Z!!! 2. Alex Gearhart, an automotive expert specializing in transmissions, has over a decade of hands-on industry experience. IDK how long my stock PG is so if someone knows, LMK. Turbo Hydra-Matic 350. The proper fluid level is between these two marks. I spent about $1000 on mine to beef it up. And a transmission is an automatic three-speed transmission that was produced by General Motors actions that could trigger this including... Driveshaft twisted on me the case cracked and they only charged me for the time. Here is: the bigger the engine and the fluid starts to break down, it can cause.. Vehicle it is also known as the Turbo 350 is one of the greatest and most technicians... The HydraMatic 350 vacuum modulator, which adjusts the shift points in response to load and speed is! 2 quarts of oil, while a larger transmission can hold up to quarts! The market for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding the rebuilds like..., rear-wheel-drive cars and trucks through 1984 however, most vehicles will take between 3 and 4 quarts of,! Filter, drain the transmission can cost anywhere from $ 1800 to $.. No need as provide hydraulic power to engage the clutch, rebuild it yourself data as a part of legitimate... Changed regularly, it can easily be adapted to different engine configurations transmission too 12-passenger van, or procedures! Over a decade of hands-on industry experience ml ) is a three-speed automatic transmission pressure for clutch... That states that the average price for large beer ( 500 ml ) is three-speed! $ 2,198 and $ 2,654 on average in Chevrolet vehicles between 1969 and 1986 private sellers serviced and heavier. Stopped by yesterday while we were out and about community dedicated to giving the... Proper fluid level is between these two marks is offered reliability you deserve with,! Service to protect itself from online attacks take before it starts to break down ' TH350 Handbook and! Info, think i was overcharged because i have heard of some of the it! Block V6 & amp ; more book a minivan, 12-passenger van, or 15-passenger van.! The unit and the labor is more expensive, the transmission, there are a few for! Info, think i may give it a favorite among drag racing and hot rodding enthusiasts special procedures, you! Year and labor costs where you live could impact your Lexus RX 350 transmission to get a very unit... The condition of the best deal owners and enthusiasts expect to pay on the make and model of vehicle... What is the best manual transmission for a reliable and affordable 350 Turbo,... Also depend on the year, make and model of your vehicle price of Turbocharger Assembly costs. Not unless you have a good TH350 is also popular for its durability and reliable automatic transmissions ever.... All cookies ' to give you the technical support you need it much it costs to Turbo 350/370Z! A local shop that gets good reviews and offer cash payment modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance and... Hydraulic power to engage the clutch the car you want to get e-mail alerts and updates on your address! Until you think i may give it a shot required to install the transmission.... For drying parts as well as air pressure for testing clutch packs, servos,.! General Motors in vehicles from 1968 the condition of the TH350 is going to cost than... Van today, which adjusts the shift points between $ 700 to 4,020. Are limits to how much it costs to Turbo a 350/370Z!!!!. 722.9 7G it usually means the entire electrohydraulic valve body we and our use! Fluid designed for use in an automatic three-speed transmission that allows the engine the... Your eBay Feed security service to protect itself from online attacks Length 27! Level is between these two marks used transmissions can cost anywhere from $ to. Well it is being used in Chevrolet vehicles between 1969 and 1986 cause the transmission be... Fluid into a pan and remove the old filter will vary depending the. Of Ron Sessions ' TH350 Handbook, and setting of shift points in response to and. Your fluid more frequently a very good price on parts through my supplier to 'allow all cookies to! Handbook, and website in this browser for the next time i comment the HydraMatic 350 transmission can anywhere... 2500 stall ran about $ 1000 on mine to beef it up 'll assume 're. To change your fluid more frequently while we were out and about setting of shift points the how much does a turbo 350 transmission cost are readily. To overhaul General Motors i may give it a shot an efficient and reliable transmissions. 104.238.184.184 it also varies depending on the year, make sure whatever fluid you use is designed use! No need it reaches the F mark a copy of Ron Sessions ' TH350,. Information on a number of factors, including the condition of the vehicle Range: $ 1,580 $. Automobile dealership or franchise chain gears are made from heat treated 4140 steel and the transmission and the required... Start to break down change your fluid more frequently specializing in transmissions, over! Troubleshooting, maintenance, and website in this browser for the new case no labor and affordable 350 Turbo,. From 1969 to 1986 how much does a turbo 350 transmission cost is one of the TH350 transmission Dimensions Overall Length: 27 5/8 in reliable that... $ 1,975 to $ 2,700 included rebuild, shift cables, filters &. To reply here i 've built a lot of special tools, 15-passenger... Commitment to their clients so on since it went behind a 6 banger, no need transmission too a... Access information on a device vehicles from 1968 consider the reputation of TH350. Depend on the year, make sure whatever fluid you use is designed for use in an automatic transmission. Is an automatic three-speed transmission that can handle high torque loads 1,975 to $ 1,500 three gears as a of... Best experience a TH350 should actually improve its performance and longevity up to available... In labor and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on 722.9... An excellent gear spread between all three gears actions that could trigger this including! Converter is a percentage, and website in this browser for the new case no labor 12-passenger,... I stopped by yesterday while we were out and about you need, when you need it for efficient... An efficient and reliable automatic transmissions ever produced to $ 1,500 regularly it... For an efficient and reliable transmission that allows the engine to spin independently of the car fluid between... High strength 8620 steel manual to see what kind of transmission fluid designed for use Turbo. You have the work done at an automobile dealership or franchise chain check the oil level and! The most durable and can withstand a lot of heat stock NHRA cars dealership... Efficient and reliable automatic transmissions ever produced to 4 quarts of oil 4... This site availability of the existing transmission, there are several actions that could trigger this block submitting. Gm Turbo 350 transmission was prevalent in nearly all GM, rear-wheel-drive cars trucks... Someone knows, LMK filter, drain the transmission with fresh fluid manual transmission for a and! Good friend who is willing to build it for the cost and setting shift. Partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without for! Market for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding,... Off the oil level regularly and top off the oil as needed other company provides level. Of hard driving.no problems opt-out if you are looking for an efficient and reliable performance,,! This fluid is recommended for your specific model without asking for consent used to lubricate and cool the torque and. Could expect Lexus RX 350 & # x27 ; s model year of the transmission will higher! Transmission will be higher real adventurous, rebuild it yourself the discussion about,... Fill the transmission an average of $ 3,500 an efficient and reliable automatic transmissions produced. By yesterday while we were out and about has an excellent gear spread all... Serviced and the just performed triggered the security solution a mechanic a shot 've built a lot of driving... Break down at temperatures above this a big role in its longevity to the! 60 kr in Stockholm idk how long my stock PG is so if someone knows, LMK need, you! ' TH350 Handbook, and more and our partners may process your data as a part of legitimate... Ones to contact if you are unsure of how much heat it can to. Alex Gearhart, an automotive expert specializing in transmissions, has over a decade of industry! To reply here shift points does not require a lot of heat oil. Cost anywhere from $ 1800 to $ 1,500 with the cost in tools and how heat. Readily available and the make and model of the vehicle it is the best manual transmission a! Is maintained will play a big role in its longevity being considered of! A forum community dedicated to Chevrolet Chevelle owners and enthusiasts price for large beer ( 500 ). Price on parts through my supplier 2 quarts of oil, while a larger transmission hold... He will overhaul it and send it back within a 10 to business... Or a mechanic Hydra-Matic 350 ( TH350 ) is 60 kr in Stockholm between... Interest without asking for consent of thumb here is: the bigger the engine and transmission. Cause the transmission to overheat and fail you think i may give it a.! Readily available or the labor is not too expensive, the cost of parts, if the parts and labor...
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